Activists bucking proposed deer hunt
Commission weighing measure to thin herds in Loomis, Granite Bay
Loomis resident Georgia Kern encountered Placer County’s surging deer population head on — with the front of her Subaru. “The deer just shot out from the right-hand side of road,” Kern recalled of the night a couple of months ago, when she was driving past Sierra College in Rocklin. “If it was a full-grown buck I could have been seriously injured or it could have gone through the windshield.” On Wednesday, Placer County’s Fish and Game Commission will decide whether to recommend to supervisors a special doe hunt in an effort to thin the herd in Loomis and Granite Bay. One proposal is to open the hunt only to children ages 12-17. But that’s raised the hackles of some animal-rights activists, who say an organized hunt is an unnecessary and inhumane response that potentially jeopardizes residents’ safety. “It’s a residential area,” said Victoria Connolly of Auburn. “When people move to a rural area they should be aware that there’s deer around.” If supervisors like the idea, it would still have to go through the state Fish and Game Commission, which would be tasked with organizing the event. The issue came to the fore after Supervisor Kirk Uhler asked county staff to look into whether deer accidents had increased on area roads. “When I witnessed my first, second and then third vehicle deer-strike in six months, I thought, ‘I don’t remember this ever being the case growing up,’” said Uhler, of Granite Bay. Statistics from Placer County Animal Services showed the so-called “deer strikes” increased from nine in 2006 to 59 the next year and 92 in 2008. Although local deer surveys are out of date, officials say they believe the accidents signal a deer population that’s much too abundant. “In a lot of similar areas, just because of landscaping and irrigation, there’s a lot of foraging for the deer, so the deer are having a lot of offspring,” said Joshua Huntsinger, the county’s deputy agriculture commissioner. Car accidents aren’t the only concern. Huntsinger said an overabundance of deer can lead to increased disease among the animals. Currently, residents are allowed to hunt two bucks a year in the Granite Bay and Loomis area. A youth doe-hunt would go further in controlling the deer population, and has the added benefit of bringing in revenue since hunters must pay to participate, Huntsinger said. Huntsinger said it could take the form of a bow-only or shotgun hunt. But Loomis animal-rights activist Teresa Barnato said promoting hunting shouldn’t be an option. “I think that’s totally self-serving argument to make on behalf of someone who wants to go out and kill animals,” she said. The problem, she said, lies with rampant development that’s forced animals into more contact with humans. That puts the onus on people to “have some respect for the rest of the individuals who live with us,” she said, referring to animals. She added that deer populations are self-correcting, and will eventually decline as foliage dies out because of the drought. “And I think it sends the wrong message to children about the values of animals and teaches them violence,” she said. “They really are trying to get children inducted into the hunting activities at an early age because hunting is in decline.” Loomis hunter Mike Roberts disagrees. “If they’re OK with having people hit them with cars, then OK,” he said. That’s what concerns Kern, who is still haunted by the image of the buck she hit. After the strike, she watched helplessly as another vehicle hit the animal, a young buck. Then she got out of her car and pulled it off the road, where it could die in peace, she said. “It was the most beautiful creature I’d ever seen,” said Kern, who raises horses on her Loomis property and supports efforts to control the population through hunting. “There are times when things need to be thinned out to actually make it more healthy.” Nathan Donato-Weinstein can be reached at nathand@goldcountrymedia.com
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The deer popultion will not self- correct in that area because of all the nice landscaping, or as deer see it a buffet. The population will continue to increase because of food and water supply and no natural predators. Eventually illness will set in or the mountain lions will. When Mr. Lion does not bag a deer, fido and fluffy make a convenient snack. Its true that we people are moving in on their territory, and so falls the responsibility of managing some balance between the two. I think it sends a message of conservation and stewardship, caring for the land we live on as well as the plants and animals.
The deer as individuals? What the ...? Really Teresa?
I think the activist should dress like deer. They need to hide in the woods and scare the hunters as they walk by.
"Teaches children violence". Where did she get that connection? Ms. Barnato, if you don't want to hunt and kill an animal then don't do it. Most of us have a grip on reality about animals, they have and will be food. I care for my dog and don't want it hurt but deer and wild turkey taste really good. I would like to know where Ms. Barnato stands on the abortion issue.
What's the real issue here Mr. Uhler? Could it be that too many of your estate-owning constituents are losing their expensive landscaping and vineyards to hungry hoards of deer? Do you realize that there are more auto vs. auto accidents than there are auto vs. deer. Maybe we should send teenagers out with weapons to cull the healthy population of cars. Proposing this type of solution without even collecting current data on deer populations and driver speed during "deer strikes" is the typical government knee-jerk reaction to an issue.
Don't expect my vote if you are ever up for reelection.
If culling of the deer herd is warranted, let Fish and Game do it. I don't want an inexperienced teenager (or adult for that matter) with a bow or gun wandering through my backyard.
The deer population has become a real menace. The bucks hang out at the bottom of my driveway all night. They are clearly up to no good. I am sure they are wearing gang colors-- brown and burnt sienna. We lost another rose bush last night, after spending hundreds of dollars on security fencing. They are just big long-legged rats. Come to think of it, I once had a pet rat t that was much better behaved.....
foothillite, why would you assume that it would be someone inexperienced? The hunters have to pass a hunter safety course, and jr hunters have to be with an adult. The hunting is not done in your backyard, its done on private property. Mr Uhler is not proposing the hunt, fish and game are. When fish and game have a depredation tag the animal carcass is usually dumped. Hunters will at least eat the meat. Grow up. P.S. I think sending teenagers out with weapons to cull the healthy population of cars is a good idea!
"one proposal is to open the hunt only to children age 12 - 17.... "
"bow only or shot gun event.... "
Babies shootin' Bambi's mama.... miniature camo PR catastrophe... IOKIYAR
Oh, I just CAN'T make stuff up about Placer County. It's the Onion Every Day.
Oh, and to the "animal rights" activist- no, the deer population will not be "self- correcting." Just like the irrigation landscaping and increased population density isn't going to "self- correct." Better to let a short hunting season go on with ADULTS than to let the Republicans hire private contractors to net the deer and shoot them from helicopters, which is what happened at Pointe Reyes when the idjiots there decided the little non native deer weren't "worthy" enough.
gulliver,
LOL!
Are they also snappin' their fingers and dancin' up the side of your garage wall??!
There was a herd of 'em last night came thru the back forty, buck nekkid. They said they heard about a great party bar on Craig's List with a river view. I pointed 'em southeast, said Via Con Deerias, and watch out for the crazy Ag Commissioner who's sendin' the kiddies after 'em with a SHOTGUN.
The one with the velvet antlers said Muchos Gracias, but we won't play the Santana CD's when we get there so we should blend in. Then he unfurled a small American flag, said Strike up the Lee Greenwood, Boys! popped the tab off a cold one, and leapt over the fence. The other 4 followed with the last of the tomaters 'n petunias clenched in their jaws.
Why don't they take the zuchini.
Mr. Uhler brought this bizarre notion up, not Fish and Game. Some powerful contributor to his campaigns complained loudly about deer eating his precious grapevines, and suddenly we're facing seeing children out with bows and arrows?! Are you kidding me?
Facts:
There is no current data showing a correlation between deer herds and deer/car accidents. None.
Killing 20 does will not do a single thing to control deer populations. That's a statistically insignificant number. Meaningless, unless you want an excuse to send kids out to kill.
Using bows and arrows is appallingly cruel, even when it's licensed and trained adults. This proposal is for untrained and unlicensed children. Again, I ask, are you kidding me?!
Demand scientific justification before supporting such a bizarre notion. Do your research, and you'll learn that this is being proposed all over the country as a way to indoctrinate kids into hunting. Their numbers are going down and they want some young blood. Pun intended.
I attended Placer County’s Fish & Game meeting in November. I was one of maybe 15 people in the assembly. There was a presentation given by a State F&G employee. She said the numbers of deer are declining in our area. She also talked about Nevada County’s alternatives to vehicle and deer issues currently underway along Hwy 49 which to me sounded like a recommendation Placer F&G should make to the Board of Supes as a long-term solution to public safety.
Until the PC F&G commission can get a firm understanding of the herd population while at the same time address alternatives to public safety, I would hope any increase in hunting permits will stay on hold. In fact, I would encourage them to reduce the number of deer permits based on the State F&G report.
Having been to the meeting, I tend to agree with Ms. Barnato when she said “I think that’s a totally self-serving argument to make on behalf of someone who wants to go out and kill animals”. At the meeting, there was a request from the audience in favor of issuing hunting permits on mountain lions. I thought California voters decide that one, twice.
Hey, it looks like I got home just in time to join this debate. Well, I live very close to Folsom Lake SRA, hunting is not allowed there and there is a very healthy herd in the park. Of course, they do go out to visit friends and relatives outside the park and also to escape the occasional Mountain Lion. I see dead deer on the roadways all the time and although a lot of these "conflicts" cannot be prevented, another large segment may be prevented simply by slowing down a bit, even if an accident occurs there is less probability of injury or death to the humans. I am a hunter, my children hunt and my older grandkids do also. I would much rather have an animal killed by a well placed shot than to suffer for however long after a confrontation with a car.
No one is trying to indoctrinate kids into killing, specially so in California where guns are under constant attack by those in the Capitol building and their well heeled buddies.
I can see a problem with the hunt such as where will it take place, in this day and age it is not safe to discharge a weapon, not even a bow and arrow in the unincorporated areas of the County. Permission from land owners must be secured before anyone is allowed to hunt in their property and I for one will not allow it due to safety considerations. Even if Folsom SRA is closed for say a weekend and hunters allowed to hunt there the possibility of projectiles landing in homes that ring the lake becomes a very good possibility.
continued- In some mid western states that have very high numbers of white tail deer there have been programs to sterilize the does using darts. These type of "culling" the herds has had differing levels of success and of course it has detractors and proponents. Something must be done or you haven't seen nothing yet. Personally I enjoy sitting on the deck or in my dining room and watching the deer come and go as they please. The only thing I would ask them is to show some decency during the rut and find a more secluded area in which to procreate.
One more thing, I also don't mind the local deer is those danged illegal ones that come in and ruin it for the good ones, they are the ones that eat the roses, the vineyards and I bet that they even use the private roads to get to the vineyards.
All you guys, have a great father's day, I had a wonderful vacation and I'm leaving again, that's the bad thing about retirement, nothing to look forward to, always on vacation. Darn.
Maybe we could make it another endurance event. You make the kids wear nikes, and they have to run the deer down first, starting at Folsom Dam at 5:15 am and they have the next 24 hours to bag the Bambi, using any trail segment between Folsom and Robinson's Flat, and get the field dressed carcass to the stadium at the fairgrounds. Viewing platforms could be set up at WS trail access points and raffled off to political donors.
Dry land biathalon. The Sierra Shotgun 100.
SLOW DOWN!
There is absolutely no data to support claims of a deer herd over-population problem in the Loomis/Granite Bay area. Nothing justifies giving guns or bows to 12-years olds, with their 18-year old buddy as the adult “supervisor” to terrorize wildlife and citizens in rural residential neighborhoods.
There may be an increase in deer-auto accidents, but what roads are they on? How fast are the drivers going? Are auto-accidents an accurate and scientifically acceptable way to measure deer over population?
Where’s the proof that putting kids in the “kill” mode will stop auto deer collisions?
If disease exists, let it cull the herd naturally. Bow hunting is notoriously cruel. Most likely, the deer are NOT diseased, but hunters want to indoctrinate kids as early as possible.
This is a “kill it” knee-jerk response to an undocumented problem. If there really is an over population, then find the cause and deal with that. Are people feeding deer and other wildlife in their back yards, which is illegal and contributes wildlife problems?
Before we teach kids that killing is the best answer and put our neighborhood communities in danger of errant shots, look at other options (educate the public, lower the speed limits, use lights to warn drivers of approaching deer, and dart with contraceptives, etc.).
The reality is that some trophy-hungry hunters have seen big bucks in Loomis/Granite Bay neighborhoods. Whoever votes for this needs to be recalled.
Common sense and an internet search will provide us several suggestions how others confronted with this opportunity addressed it. I suggest that the Auburn community participate and tasks be assigned to various groups. My preliminary searches looked at solutions in Switzerland, Italy and Poland. That way folks who do not like one type of sausage can have another. Who is going to volunteer to bring the charcoal? I am happy to help make the sausage and BBQ. We should probably avoid jokes about veal so as to nut garner the wrong type of public reaction.
Correct the deer population cannot self correct, more people, more food, few mountain lions, equals more deer. The population will have to be trimmed............
Of course not by 12 to 17 year olds.........shows there is not shortage of idiots.
That gasbag Uhler treats the laws of the county like they were written on an etch-a-sketch. Without telling anyone, he and fellow cronyists gutted and removed many laws, including TRESSPASSING, to help their chardonnay sipping, eliitist friends that want to hold wine tastings. When they got caught they claimed they were "streamlining" the laws. Just like "growth" is the new "sprawl". So now Uhler's friends don't like deer eating their grapes, and Uhler makes tresspassing legal...at least in the county code. (the state code, 602pc, is a joke and unenforceable in a rural area.) Anyone else beginning to smell rat? I notice deer quietly grazing next to the roads in most cases. Causing me to wonder how many deer will be chased out onto the roads in a panic with the blood-thirsty hunters and their more intelligent K-9 counterparts in hot pursuit. On Santa Catalina Island a non-native deer species was causing some sort of problems a few years ago. Fat cats in charge of the Bush administration's Dept. of the Interior wanted to have their own "special" hunt. When this was exposed, they changed tactics and said they want to take disabled vets to hunt the deer. They would even try to accomodate wheelchairs! So now if you are against the hunt...you must be against disabled vets. In Placer county, you must be against the children. This tactic is very low class and desperate. The arrogant hogs at the trough have no shame. Shouldn't we be discussing term limits instead?
Fresh Venison....I can't wait!!! I got this big ole buck been hanging out in my yard eating the roses, couple of does, too. Oh boy is this gunna be great!!!
For me its venison or soilent green!!
Hopefully the disease that eats away what's left of anyone's brain who chomps down on the diseased venison won't spread to others, or if they live, that the rehab facilities won't be too expensive. Remember? That's one of the backup reasons for the hunt, in case the deer-auto-collision argument isn't strong or truthful enough to get the hunt approved: "By golly, those deer must be diseased--it's the killing, maiming and wounding that will make them healthy again!" Maybe these folks have already partaken in the tainted meat.
It reminds me of some unsubstantiated claims of "weapons of mass destruction--we don't need no facts; we know how to handle this--KILL!."
California so far has been devoid if Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD), I don't think that disease is an issue here. I also resent the holier than thow crowd calling me a killer simply because I enjoy hunting and eat what I take, there is not a single mount in my home. Jim Cather, you have been around long enough to know that trophy deer are not found in this area, yes, every once in a while you see a nice buck or even a doe but they are few and far between. Deer populations vary year to year depending on conditions. The fact that there has been an increase in deer vs auto incidents is mainly due to the fact people drive too fast and don't pay attention, however, it is also a fact that during the rut bucks do get very stupid, something similar to what some humans do at bars called meat markets.
Most hunters are decent, hard working people and none of you anti hunters are any better than them, your insulting mantra is proof of hostility and the lack of ability to discuss ideas intelligently.
Our property backs almost to the lake property and yes, there are a lot of deer around, we have also seen signs of Mountain lions which are attracted to areas where deer are plentiful and lo and behold not long ago we also had a mama bear and cub around. My biggest concern is the safety factor, it is not safe to shoot guns or bows and arrows or cross bows in areas that are populated, a slug, an arrow or a bolt don't know that they have to stop at the fence line. Simple, huh.
continued- So animal lovers and I'm one of them. Keep your insults to yourself, do what you feel is the right thing but don't call me names or stereotype me. After all, you bleeding hearts cause a lot of internal terrorism by burning or otherwise destroying educational or research facilities. So please contain yourselves so I don't have to drag myself to your level. This hunt is unsafe as proposed, however I know very little about it, this is the first time I've heard about it. I don't know what really prompted the action. I would like to see the herd culled using different methods, I specially don't want a bunch of young kids running around with weapons capable of killing or injuring not only the deer but humans and livestock also, I would much rather have someone with a lot of experience doing the culling.
It someone has a problem they can fence their property and/ or install devices set up by motion to scare the deer away. If the vineyards happen to be in private roads I'm sure the BOS will create an ordinance to have the neighbors foot the bill for the fence or scare devices, that would compliment the wine ordinance very nicely, sorry couldn't resist that.
I guess no one here has had the opportunity to hit a deer..no matter what the speed is I have hit a few.... All the save bambi folks should vote to introduce more mountain liions..but of course that would create more controversy..
Dancingdog, hey, this gets better with every post. Yes the Mountain Lions are protected, we country bumpkins have learned to live with that fact, not a problem. However, I would like to mention that the bulk of the voters that passed the proposition banning Mountain Lion hunting live in the cities, they are the same folks that want the mountain lions or bears killed when they dare go into their precious, safe enclaves. As for you and Ms. Barnato. I don't hunt to satisfy my hunger to kill as you so dramatically put it, I do kill but I also do it in the most humane way I can, I don't take shots that I'm not sure will not result in a quick humane kill and above all, I eat what I hunt. You don't agree with that? Not a problem, don't do it, however, don't try to cram your ideals down my throat. Have a great day, slow down and look ahead at night for those two green spots by the side of the road, chances are it's a deer and if you see them slow way down, give them a chance to survive, death by car is terribly agonizing.
Personally, I am opposed to this hunt, I think that once again political donors are manipulating our elected officials for their benefit. Since Uhler is involved and since I'm familiar with the area I would say that the vineyards at Clos Du Lac have something to do with this, they are trying to get rid of anything they feel detract from their perceived special environment, they already conned the County into removing the horse trails. Just an educated guess.
Jim Cather, You’re incorrect. When decease sets in an area, the entire herd may be lost. Know one wants that, unless you do. So many of you are speaking about a subject you know nothing about. Hunts such as this have been going on for years. Hagen Oaks Golf Course has had to have its jack rabbit populations thinned many time in past years. It’s a very populated area; they never had a problem. You think this is a “conspiracy” to indoctrinate young hunters gave me a good laugh. Everything that goes on is not always a conspiracy. The state herd numbers may be down, but that particular area may have an increase. BTW, other states do recognize auto/deer accidence as a way of forecasting up or down trends in deer herds. Well said Loomis, and welcome back.
-Spend tax dollars on a survey. It will work great, just like the parking in downtown auburn thing did.
-The deer population may be unbalanced, due to the uneven number of male & females. They should offer a doe permit to adult hunters. Try it for a year, or do it every other,or every 5 years. it doesn't have to be forever. No population can survive with a grossly uneven female to male ratio.
-"Loomis animal-rights activist Teresa Barnato...deer populations are self-correcting, and will eventually decline as foliage dies out because of the drought." The herd will self correct, by starving to death after they become more aggressive looking for food. I'm not talking about your gardens or grapes, but the picnic table where your kids are eating. It's annoying when it's squirrels, imagine deer...during the rut. Dangerous!
-Speed limits are not necessarily the answer. The deer don't care what speed you are going, they cross when they want. Plus, you would have to drive that speed all the time. Unless they have 'after dark' speed limits?
nicklbag, wow. Santa Catalina Island had a huge population of goats, these were introduced to the island by the white men, they had hunts every year. Eventually the environmentalists won and the goats were eradicated along with the "wild pigs" and Bison. They had some, very few deer and if my memory serves me right they were Fallow deer, these are exotics and not even natives to the North American continent. The same thing happened in Santa Cruz, Santa Rosa and San Miguel Islands after they became part of the Channel Islands National Park along with Anacapa Is. At Point Reyes non native deer were also eradicated, again, at the urging of those trying to protect the native species. Closely related but not affecting deer is the lawsuit that the DF&G lost and as a result trout plants have been stopped in over 200 locations.
States such as Idaho accommodate disabled hunters very well, as a matter of fact California should take note. I know you, like a lot of Americans hate Bush, however Santa Catalina Island is owned by the Wrigley family and the hunting and fishing is handled by the Cal DFG, not the Feds. The situation you were referring to was in Santa Cruz Island and ir was goats and sheep, being a National Park that was under the jurisdiction of the Feds.
BTW before I came to Placer County I lived in Ventura and I am very familiar with those islands, I've spent a lot of time sailing, kayaking and diving around them. It'd be nice if people would be factual every now and then.
I hit a buck about 6 months ago on Foresthill Road, and you can still see my skidmarks on the pavement today. My children were in the car with me, and while my 12 year old son was traumatized over the whole thing, my 16 year old daughter was irritated because her Taco Bell dinner was getting cold while we sat in the dark at the side of the road, waiting for a flat bed tow to pick up our maimed vehicle. I'm not all that fond of the sport of hunting {just ask my husband, who keeps threatening to get his deer tags every year}, but I would much rather see someone hunt a deer for food, than to EVER go through that scene again. I have hoof sized dents on my hood directly in line with the steering wheel, my side mirror was torn off & the driver's side door was completely caved in, so I had to crawl out the passenger side after I got my poor car to the side of the road. If another misguided deer decides to fling itself into the path of an oncoming car going 55 mph, I certainly hope it chooses to do so in front of one of those warm & fuzzy animal rights type folks, so they can experience the thrill of a near death experience, Placer County style...
Jim Cather I just reread your post and was laughing so hard my wife came in to see what was so funny. Your comment "If there really is an overpopulation, then find the cause and deal with it" Feeding the deer does not create overpopulation, maybe overweight deer, The answer is pretty obvious, don't you think? Couple that with the fact that very few deer are harvested in the area in question and the only enemy faced by the deer are the cars. If you don't believe what I said, ask any DFG employee or get a copy of the hunting regulations. I would bet that very few deer are harvested legally in the areas under question. I'm a hunter but in this case I consider this hunt too dangerous for the two legged population and I really, really question the motives.
I was an avid hunter and fisherman. However, the challenge/joy of wildlife photography made me realize that killing deer, or any gorgeous animal, meant no one else could ever experience that animal’s magnificence. Yes, we ate everything, but who were we to take that animal’s beauty away from others? That, coupled with witnessing less-than-honorable antics of some fellow hunters, leaves little-to-no tolerance for “sport” hunting. Since when does “eating” justify “killing”? You don’t need the meat, you are not starving, if/when you can afford the firearms, ammo, dogs, stands or whatever else goes into it nowadays. It’s a slaughter and not often a very pretty one at that.
To self-proclaimed “experts” above: Do the research. Feeding deer CAN and DOES result in overpopulation—that’s a no brainer. After culling, look at statistics for rebound effects. It’s very well documented—more food = more deer.
Disease almost NEVER wipes out an ENTIRE herd (false claim above was couched with “may”). It’s more like swine flu—the hardiest and most resistant survive. But even if it did eradicate a herd, over time others would move back in.
“Correcting” is akin to “balance. The carrying capacity of an area does correct naturally. It’s when bullies (aka “man”) barge in with ignorance and self-serving motives that we end up with problems.
Lowering speed limits IS one solution. The stopping distance of a car going 25 mph and 45 …
Wow Jim, did you hunt deer with dogs? Where you get that from? PETA? I enjoy photography also and have quite a collection of photos. If you don't want to eat meat, so be it but you have no right to tell me what to do. That is the problem with single minded people, they cannot comprehend some else's thinking or way of life. It's their way or the highway and when they don't get what they want they resort to terrorism. Remember those nice kids from Newcastle that tried to burn the Umpqua Bank building on A-F road? If it's legal, let it be, if you don't approve, don't do it. I'm a hunter and I oppose this hunt, doesn't that tell you my mind is way more open than yours?
Have a great day.
This discussion is not about legality at all. It is my right (and in this case, my duty) to block or change bad or outdated laws. Would you deny me that right? By killing the trophies, you take them away from all of us--all legally now. Thus, I will work to change the laws so that we all can enjoy wildlife.
The proposed hunt is about as absurd as it gets. If/when they approve it, it will be legal, but we will be working to get it changed. A good start will be a campaign to remove at least one nutty supervisor who more than likely is re-paying a campaign contribution with a neighborhood hunt, arming children, and putting all of us in harm’s way.
Eat meat, eat insects, eat you-know-what--I could not care less what you ingest--just don't try to present culinary habit as a legitimate, logical argument to justify killing wildlife that belongs to all of us. It's a self-righteous, nonsequitur in my book.
I normally refuse to do the research that others should be doing, but to make sure you keep that mind of yours open with knowledge: Yes, we hunted everything with dogs. Have you ever heard of GPS collars? Dogs can find the try-to-flee wounded in thick brush (or in trees) better than humans. I’ll spare you the details, but let your imagination run wild. You may come close to how horrifically some wounded animals end their lives.
JimCathers, I suggest you contact the California Deer Association CDA and the different Mule Deer Associations around the country. Ask them about the potential for disease killing a local herd. If not for the efforts of these biologists working closely with the local state agencies, many herds would be lost. I’m sorry but I’m not buying this false claim that you were a hunter. You can run with PETA all you want, but it won’t do any good. Hunting is a way to obtain food for many people. It is a legitimate argument that many people don’t want the farm grown animals. Wild meant is approximately seven times less fat than meat for slaughter. I grew up eating this meat. My parents were against eating animals that were injected with hormones and fattened. You can attempt to stop hunting all you want; you’ll fail. BTW, if you were ever a hunter, you’d know that a “trophy” deer is an old deer and has little time left on earth for others to enjoy. They are also very difficult to find. About the only thing you have stated that is correct is that feeding the deer is not good. It can facilitate in the spread of disease.
okay, change the speed limits on Auburn Folsom Rd. to 25mph. And Foresthill Rd. And 80 should probably only be around 40, because lots of deer get hit there, as well. We'll have to change it on 50, as well. Soo...problem solved?
btw, hunters in CA are not allowed to use dogs to hunt deer. (Believe it or not, some hunters obey the rules & regulations.)
Oh, the old" they're gonna die anyway, so let's kill 'em" reasoning. Gee, that makes sense....
The two deer associations you mention may be into conservation, but that's because they're big on hunting. Might there be a conflict of interest here as far as statements and statistics go?
Substinence hunting may have been appropriate for Danial Boone or Davy Crocket, but today's "wannabe" providers were born in the wrong century. Hunting in rural residential neighborhoods, with lethal-weapon toting kids, is unacceptable and more dangerous than the biggest bucks in rutting season or any driving on Auburn-Folsom Road.
What you believe or don't believe, eat or don't, is your business. We will continue to oppose this bizarre, half-baked proposal from a shameful, pandering supervisor.
btw: Maybe someone has their states mixed up: Dogs CAN be used in Calif for "pursuit and take." Look up Title 14, section 265c1.
Jimcathers, You go on eating your high cholesterol meat. I chose to eat what I obtain in the field. Please feel free to waste your time with the anti-hunting agenda; it will go nowhere. Moslems, You can hunt deer with dogs in California. I believe it is bears you can’t hunt with dogs. I’m not sure as I have never hunted bear.
We have bowhunting here to "cull" the deer but year after year we see the same number of herd replenished or "restocked". The question I like to ask is do they have deer hunting beside this youth bowkilling? How much cruelty can we inflict on our deer now with children shooting an arrow into a sentient animals its bad enough that the way bowshot deer dies is by hemorrhaging. Even with adult deer killers the deer wounds and slow death are very high that is why tracking wounded deer site are everywhere. Here is a veterinarian say about bowhunted deer suffering.
"Consider the physiology of the deer who dies by suffocation, choking on its own blood,
or the deer who dies after an arrow penetrates the diaphragm. The presence of a highly
sophisticated nervous system in deer certainly suggests that their nervous systems
perform the same functions as human nervous systems. The presence of the same
neurochemicals in deer as in humans similarly shows that they feel pain as we do."
Also read about how bowhunting does nothing for deer population and it may even worsen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlBTQQD4PL8
Watch how a bowshot deer can send deer out of their home fleeing. Its bad enough adult bowkillers cannot shoot accurately imagine the chidlren killing. ?
Sorry I forgot to put the bowshot deer video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i42QqhSU8lQ
This is my blogger
http://mathew5-7.blogspot.com/2009/04/what-is-compensatory-rebound-effect-and.html
there are important information you may like to read and learn. I am heading to my son's graduation but I will be back and probably be putting a video together on the subject children killing deer in Placer county CA which is an OUTRAGE! These are sentient being not an object for a children to use for "sports" . HOw can one allow a children to learn such sadism and what do the adult tell the children that the animals do not suffer? A dog can suffer but a deer cannot? That to kill a living being is "sporty" and "fun"?
I am no Peta and many of my stuff is what I have observed, read and learned . The videos are put together by me as well.
CarolynTC: OMG, I'm speechless. Your videos are exactly what is feared with this sensless assault on wildlife in of all places Granite Bay and Loomis. I'll watch for your next post and YouTube URL address. I wonder if the PC F&G Commission will let you present one of these at tomorrow's meeting?
oops, my bad. you can use dogs for deer and bear.
Please read my blogger, the article was written by a good friend of mine and a well known anti-hunters Anthony Marr. He has a website called "STOP KILLING DEER" AND NON LETHAL DEER OPTION INFORMATION.
http://mathew5-7.blogspot.com/2009/06/shame-on-california-for-planning-child.html
I work hard to put videos together and use any venues I can to expose the ugly reality of hunting and the sadistic cruelty places upon our innocent sentient being. The children will be using these animals as if they are nothing more then moving objects to shoot at and not a creature who feel terror, pain, and suffering. Killing them will not help your overpopulation and deer vehicle accident. If you have the time read other posts it may shock you about the lies of the State Wildlife Agencies/DNR and even hunters.
Watch how this young doe suffers from a young bowhunters, is this the future of the children bowhunters will now find it fun to kill animals ,even to the point of watching the animals thrashing and crying in pain. ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCamL2fA8Rk
Deer birth control facts
http://www.pzpinfo.org/pzp_faqs.html
Deer birth control works
by Jay
Kirkpatrick, Ph.D., a prize winning wildlife researcher with more than 20
years experience in the filed of contraception and wildlife reproduction.
http://saveeastgoshen.com/deer_contraception.htm
A Veterinarian's Perspective on Bowhunting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgA1iD0dhvg
You can use what ever you need dancingdog if it will help our wildlife and even our people. The url is right there and if you need further information you can contact me at mamenohi82@yahoo.com
Hysterics aside. I am trying to get a CA DFG warden to attend the meeting with information on how many deer are harvested in the ares in question. I bet not many, I would also bet that cars take a much higher toll. I will also bet that this "hunt" will be centered in the area comprised of the west side of A-F Rd., that is where most of the vineyards are located in Loomis/ Granite Bay area, Clos Du Lac being a very big one and when I ride my horse by there, can't go through the place anymore, they closed the horse trails in conspiracy with the county you see deer all the time. I'll wager that they are the driving force of this Hunt. I will make every effort to be at the meeting tonight and will have some questions for the commissioners. But, in the meantime, stay calm, no point in getting hysterical.
Deer Vehicle Accident has gone up as the result of hunting, not down or even stabilized. Why are states like PA, Wisconsin, Michigan, GA, and TX and many other heavily hunted states deer population has risen in the past 4 decades?
My friend Anthony Marr know a lot about lethal "culling" and that is not only does not work but it was never meant to, hunting is a business with state wildlife Agencies which is majority rules buy hunters themselves. Here is what he writes.
3. "Culling" does not work. It is more than neutralized by a natural phenomenon called the "Compensatory Rebound Effect". When food become scarce, deer would naturally curtail their reproductive rate down to no fawn or single fawn. When food is plentiful, their reproductive rate would increase to twins and triplets. The ideal is a marginal "over-population" so that the reproductive rate is kept low and the population remains stable in the long term. If a significant portion of the population is culled to below carrying capacity, what is accomplished is the raising of the reproductive rate to the point when the next year WILL show a higher "overpopulation".
http://mathew5-7.blogspot.com/2009/06/shame-on-california-for-planning-child.html
Like I mentioned before we have bowhunting here and now we see many little fawns and herd size no different then the year before.
"THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE HUNTERS WANT!!! To create the problem in the community, then offer themselves as saviors of the community, and the uninformed citizens who have lost some tulips to deer browsing would welcome them with open arms, without realizing that the prime motive of the hunters is to deviously force their way into the community for hunting purposes.
5. Because of the Compensatory Rebound Effect, once the killing starts, it will never end. Culling as a "solution" to deer "overpopulation" is self-perpetuating. Once bow-hunters are allowed into an urban community, they will perpetrate the "problem", and you can never get rid of them." Anthony Marr HOPE (Heal Our Planet Earth)
www.HOPE-CARE.org
604-222-1169
If you live in a State with lots of deer and lots of deer vehicle accidents...READ MY BLOGGER PLEASE
http://mathew5-7.blogspot.com/2009/06/if-you-live-in-state-with-lots-of-deer.html
"Facts about bow-hunting:
1. Most adult bow-hunters use high powered compound bows with draw weights upwards of 70-pounds and arrow velocities around 300-ft/sec. Even so, the accuracy range is only about 30 yards. Statistics gathered since the 1970s show that the non-lethal wounding rate of bow-hunting is around 50%, and that to kill one deer, an average of 17 arrows would have been shot, most hitting non-vital parts of the deer (anywhere but the chest), or missing altogether.
2. A 12-year-old child may be able to handle a bow of only 20-30 pounds draw-weight, with an accuracy range of only about 10-15 yards, and very low arrow speeds . With such equipment, the non-lethal wounding rate would skyrocket to easily 75%. In other words, to kill 10 deer, they would need to shoot and hit 40 deer. To kill the targeted 25 deer by such child hunters, they may hit and wound upwards of 100 deer.
3. As if #2 is not bad enough, these chosen juvenile bow-hunters do not need licenses to shoot deer in Placer county. This means that they have never been officially tested for archery skill.
All in all, I predict that if this hunt goes ahead, there will be arrow-wounded deer by the dozens staggering around in Placer County when the hunt is over."
Anthony Marr would be more then happy to take your call
Anthony Marr, founder and president
Heal Our Planet Earth (HOPE)
604-222-1169
Nobodys going to turn children loose with weapons.I am sure the dept.of fish and game will have special rules and regulations.An orientation will probably be required.You people against this need to relax they are just animals,and humans will allways come first.
@gwright
"they are just animals" that is what is so wrong with the hunting community, even though they are "just" animals they too have interest in living and capable of pain and suffering and that is all what matters so even though you think they are "just" animals they have just as much right to be free from terror, pain, suffering and death. Because they are "just animals" its ok to you for the animals to suffer? How selfish you are! Is that how you feel about dogs and cats? In china they kill them but to them they are "just animals" but do you believe that is right?
my god caroline BS? i don't know where you got your statistics but thay are NOT right and even sound stupid i hope ALL you peta loveing tofu eating sissy's grow up at some point . WOW heal are planet ? what make you think ? that you have any efeit at all on the planet.i don't know. if you know . but earth has been here for 40 billion year's human ?? mybe 100.000 so don't flater your self.
Dept of fish and wildlife could give a damn about the suffering of our sentient being nor the lives of humans whether be from hunting accident or deer vehicle accidents. Hunting is a money maker for them not to benefit the non hunting public but the hunting. They spend billions of dollars manipulating deer habitat but burning down timber and vegetation (hmm, I wonder if those CA fires can be attributed to these fire that State Wildlife Agencies sets, they also clear cut forest, plant food plots that deer loves to boost their reproductive cycle. They create "fawn crops", and also what they call "fawn recruites" meaning they be a used for sport hunting purpose and of course kills deer's natural predators such as coyote.. Hunting is nothing about reduction its about production, money, sports, and greed without a care a world about human lives. Why do they continue to lie and deceive the public about deer birth control even thought they work and claim "hunting is the only way to reduce" yet we see that deer vehicle accident as high as ever and deer problem are never ending. I believe that the hunting public wants and likes the DVA's this way fear is what make public accepts lethal killing which people really do not want and of course even when public ask for deer birth control or other non-lethal hunters continue to lie.
.
Carolinetc, how long has it been since you have taken your medications. Please don't let it go much longer
carlolinetc you must be a bark eater you sound crazy? but you are right fish&game do make monny on hunting. but then a lot of the fund's go's to habitat? ?and as for the fire's well your just sick ????
well thank' loomisresident "caroline must be takeing her med's
hay is that all you got pukus oohhhh???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
bamaxsplant, you lost me on that last part.
littile girl's can't kick nothing. and you pukus are a girl so pipe down go sit at the small table.
look huut the deer eat the deer sound's good to me
I'm out of here.
i'am with you loomis good by everybody
loomis and oldhorse dumb and dumber or beavis and butthead lol
Wow! I just logged on for the first time today. The vulgar and immature posts by these anti-hunters are staggering. I think it speaks volumes about their mentality and their willingness to distort facts. Like any good liar, they are using parts of truth to sell their lies. Because one man who is an admitted anti-hunter picks little parts from a bunch of know bodies in the field, he thinks people are to take his word over the many biologists that have been in the field forever. All you have to do is speak to a DFG biologist or a biologist from the California Deer Association (CDA), and they will be happy to explain how well culling works and has worked for so many years. Anyone that would get their information from a propaganda video and take it at face value would have to be ignorant, but then many people are taken every day by scam artists, aren’t they? It is my choice to eat the meat I harvest. It is healthier and it is my right. My guess is that Carolinetc and canus lupus are one and the same. My guess is also that they are both very young. Your quest to stop all hunting has blinded you to objectivity. Therefore, you lose all credibility. The only thing you have been correct about is that hunting is a big business; yes it is. It generates the majority of the funds to help maintain habitat and facilitate in the care for these animals.
First thing that popped to my head when I read loomis and oldhorse comment was dumb and dumber or beavis and butthead , could not help it. second of all many of my information was gathered from State Wildlife Agencies website. Why don't you visit my blogger and read a little but of course like majority of the hunters they pretend they don't know that deer mangement or "wildlife management" is a sham.
"and they will be happy to explain how well culling works and has worked for so many years."
If it "works" then why has deer vehicle accident gone up as the result of hunting and why are there more deer then ever before?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFkO4rXnnqM
"The only thing you have been correct about is that hunting is a big business; yes it is. It generates the majority of the funds to help maintain habitat and facilitate in the care for these animals."
Of course its a business , definitely not about "reduction" of Deer human conflicts/deer vehicle accidents because money has got to be made to produce more deer (vicious cycle) and without the deer abundance and buck deer for human to slaughter for trophy how would DNR make money?. In order to "restocks" the slaughtered deer from fall deer killing season they need to do everything to keep the deer herd plenty especially antlered deer and that is why the manipulate deer habitat and billions of the "funds" goes to producing large deer herd and of course the antlered deer.
How about the fact that they supplement feed deer (except Wisconsin) to ensure large antler grown and herd growth? Even though it can spread mad deer disease/CWD they make excuses when it come to deer production and huge antlers. So why would hunters tell others like non-hunters not to feed out "bambie" as hunters would say but they themselves do it all the time. Its even suggested on many Wildlife Agencies website. Did you know that it was the supplement feeding of deer that helps spread mad deer disease/CWD years ago when they used to use rendered animals for protein (soy and other plant source are used today) Protein its whats needed to keep does producing babies besides the food plots and of course the antler growth. There are tons of website selling deer feeder to do just that and there is no warning about CWD. Its not just CWD that can spread but many other wildlife disease like blue tongue. So much money and time spend creating deer for deer killing season so some bubbah can shoot an arrow or bullet at a deer and count the points or some just love the feel of "domination" when they can simply kill animals for no apparent reason but because they "can".
"It is healthier and it is my right. "
Actually its not "healthier " when you think about the disease like Mad deer/CWD/CJD that has already killed hunters and this disease is a time bomb but its not the hunters that has to worry its the pantries for many trophy deer carcass ends up there.
By the way, hunting is not a "right" its a privilege.
"Currently, residents are allowed to hunt two bucks a year in the Granite Bay and Loomis area. A youth doe-hunt would go further in controlling the deer population, and has the added benefit of bringing in revenue since hunters must pay to participate, Huntsinger said."
Everyone should learn a litte bit about doe hunting and what does it do really. This is my blogger with information I have gathered from hunting website. Anti-hunters have always talked about how doe hunt actually does the opposite and creates larger deer herd and as I did my own "investigation" I realize they were right...
http://mathew5-7.blogspot.com/2009/06/fish-and-wildlife-encourage-killing.html
There is also a link to the "Anatomy of a doe hunt" and that should explain why even with kiling does deer populaition continues to rise.
Carolinetc, After attempting to make sense of your improper sentence structure and punctuation, moreover, after listening to your pathetic appeal at the meeting last night I could easily start calling you childish names, but I won’t. You are being very dishonest. Deer management is not a “sham.” It works well and has for many, many years now. As explained by the head biologist last night, the herd management is very difficult and has become even more difficult because of people like you that will not allow fire to thin the forest naturally as they thinned many years ago. When the over growth becomes too old, it is less attractive and doesn’t have the nutrients necessary to produce a “healthy” herd. The deer dying from a slow death of malnutrition and disease is far worse than dying from the bullet of a hunter. It is hilarious to read your lies. You say that “there are more deer than ever before.” This is not true in California. We are a state that produces Blacktail deer and Mule deer. They are not like the Whitetail deer back east. Our herds are definitely down. However, there may be pockets of over population in certain areas, for example, Loomis and Granite Bay.
loomisresident, I'm curious did you attend last night's meeting or opt for a fun filled vacation? If you attended, would you give me your interpretation.
As the head biologist explained, the number of bucks harvested each year is a drop in the bucket; it does nothing to the deer herd. Each year’s fawn population easily replenishes those numbers. California does NOT allow “supplement deer feeding.” It is against the law. Many states are now banning the practice. Of course it wouldn’t be healthier if you ate a deer that had a disease, but the odds of that are miniscule. It IS healthier. Wild meat has approximately seven times less fat than farm produced meat, not to mention all of the garbage they put into those animals raised on farms. You are simply attempting to distort the facts, as you anti-hunters usually do. As the biologist explained last night, if you want to cut the numbers down in a certain area, you must have a doe hunt, not bucks. It has worked for many years. The only legitimate concern is the safety of such a hunt in that area. I understand the residence may have concerns, but the garbage you anti-hunters put out is just that, garbage. The Commission didn’t buy it either.
Patrick50, when did I offer my opinion on this issue?
Oh I get it now. Patrick50 thinks I'm CarolineTC (....My guess is that Carolinetc and canus lupus are one and the same. My guess is also that they are both very young....) Well, let's see here, anyone care to guess my weight? :- I'll tell you right now, THAT one I'll lie about.
OK so, let's start over. Patrick50, did you attend last night's meeting and can you tell me what occured?
The media reported 25 does in this hunt. That sounds like a drop in the bucket to me. I seem to recall one of the driving forces behind this was an increase in vehicle accidents. Was this discussed? Was CHP there to substantiate this for the Commission? Did the head biologist talk about increasing numbers of deer in this area or in our area in general?
Drats, I wish I could have attended the meeting. For such a hot topic, I haven't read anything more about it today.
Canuslupus, You offered your opinion, but your lack of respect for others and your fowl language got your comments removed from the blog. I pretty much stated what happened at the meeting last night. Read it.
That should read “foul.” I guess the duck hunter was coming out in me.
I am tired of this subject, however I am offended by some of the non-hunters opinions. You sound as If your life dosen't affect the life of animals. The land that you are living on was once the home of animals. The fuel in your car was an animal. Have you ever swatted a fly or mosquito, or used flea and tick spray. How about that rice you eat, did you know that I shoot the ducks that eat that rice so that you can eat it. What about the other grains that you eat, mice, rabbits, birds, foxes , and coyotes are killed in the harvester machienes so that you can eat. My point is that we all have to draw a line in the sand, just make sure that you really are on the other side before you point your finger at me.
First of all Patrick you have me mistaken for another person and second of all typical of sports animal killers to pin point someone grammar or spelling to take focus away from the real subject or thinks to insult my grammar will discredit me.
You often see writing such as this on Hunting and "deer management" website and its no wonder why they reject deer birth control.
"The number of new deer added to the pre-hunt population is a function of the number of fawns born and their survival until until the fall. The number of fawns born is primarily determined by the number of does, but the survival of fawns, however, is mostly dependent upon the physical condition of does, although predation is certainly a factor is some situations. A large number of does that are nutritionally stressed will not raise as many fawns to be added to the fall population as a lesser number of healthy does."
Now read this part again
"A large number of does that are nutritionally stressed will not raise as many fawns to be added will not raise as many fawns to be added to the fall population as a lesser number of healthy does.""
Raised to be "added" meaning the deer thats been slaughtered need to be "added" so that is why they kill off the deer's natural predators with more food availability plus the food plots even with 100,000 deer killed in a season those will be "restocked" because DNR works very hard and spend a lot of money to be sure it does.
How about comments like this.
"Additionally, keep an eye on your predator population and do what you can to control them, but especially in areas with less than ideal fawning habitat. There is quite a bit of time between now and deer season, but the deer you should be thinking about is the one you will be harvesting about 5 1/2 years from now. "
"Thus, late fall up to early winter is very important for deer herd managers to impact and influence fawn production, so make sure the plant communities on your property is properly managed deer habitat. "
"Too few does and recruitment may not be adequate to replace deer harvested."
Why would hunters be so concerned with "replacing" deer if the intention of hunting is to reduce deer population?. Who can answer me this question?
"Wild meat has approximately seven times less fat than farm produced meat, not to mention all of the garbage they put into those animals raised on farms."
"Could
these strains of TSE move into people, say, through infected venison
sausage? No one knows for sure, but the best available new evidence
indicates that yes, CWD could infect people. A National Institutes of
Health laboratory study has shown that CWD, like British mad cow disease,
can convert normal human prions into infected prions. Indeed we might have
already seen the first human deaths from mad deer disease. Three years ago
two young Western hunters, Doug McEwen and Jay Whitlock, came down with
so-called classic or sporadic CJD in their late twenties and died. In
1996 Kevin Boss, a Minnesotan who hunted there and in western Wisconsin,
died of CJD at age forty-one. Mary Reilly of Waupaca died not long ago of
CJD at age forty-three. These are a handful of young CJD deaths, but there
are more and they seem to be increasing. No one knows what CWD or other US
strains of transmissible spongiform encephalopathy (TSE) would look like in
humans, but as in Britain they would possibly first appear as increasing
cases of classic CJD in people under fifty years of age.
Unfortunately, both the federal and state governments are badly bungling
this issue and falsely reassuring people that what happened in Britain could
never happen here. "
…
Do you consume dairy, Patrick like cheese, ice creams etc?
Have you read about doe hunt here?
http://www.hnva.net/anatomy.html
Carolinetc, I’m sorry but I don’t know how to put this any other way but to say that you are less than honest. I have already addressed these false accusations you claim. Go back and read them. You are not objective. You are just part of a special interest group making false claims and talking about a subject you know very little about. Your goal is to stop hunting, period. None of your false claims make any sense. I’m not confusing you with anyone else. You called Loomis and Oldhorse “dumb and dumber” and “Beavis and Butthead.” Anyone that has the audacity to call someone those names better have some education or they become the real …… Look, you are over the top with your lies and distortions. It is because of people like you that we don’t thin our forests for better nutrition that would facilitate in better health for our wild life. We need the forests to be thinned. It helps our wild life, not hurts them. I have already pointed this out. You just ignore the facts and put out more propaganda for your agenda. Nobody’s buying it! I already addressed the ignorant assertion that people may get disease from the deer. You may get ecoli from your strawberries. Should we stop eating them? You are a joke. The fact is: wild game is healthier to eat. If you don’t want it, don’t eat it. Just stop with your lies.
Your comment clearly shows Patrick that you cannot refute my facts so you just go on with your pointless rambling hoping it would make some kind of sense but unfortunately it does not. You go from "I'm not confusing you" to "beavis and butthead" then end with "strawberry and e-coli" lol
"In some mid western states that have very high numbers of white tail deer there have been programs to sterilize the does using darts."
Its not "sterilization" its contraception, but hunters love to use the "sterilization" to make false claim and scare people.
Deer contraception has been used in Gaithersburg Maryland and here is what they said.
"During the fourth vaccination round in 1999, 12 does were taken off the vaccine to see if they could become pregnant again. All 12 successfully gave birth to healthy fawns. (so its not "sterilization")
Since 2000, the birth rates have continued to stay low. Data have shown that the decreased birth rates are the result of the PZP vaccine."
"To begin with, "sterilization" is an inaccurate and misleading term.
Contraception, which is what the debate is all about, is reversible
fertility inhibition, but not sterilization. Spaying is sterilization;
neutering is sterilization, but condoms, pills, diaphragms, IUDs, and
immunocontraception (vaccines) are reversible and by definition,
contraception. The paper's editors, and both authors should be more careful
about their use of inaccurate terms." Jay
Kirkpatrick, Ph.D., a prize winning wildlife researcher with more than 20
years experience in the filed of contraception and wildlife reproduction.
Carolinetc, You really support my point when I say that you are dishonest. You haven’t proven any of my facts wrong. You provide no facts, just distortions. I covered the topics above because YOU mentioned them. You simply want to stop all hunting. You have failed; you are failing, and you will continue to fail. The only sources you use are from anti-hunting individuals, and their opinions are in the minority. The deer contraceptive idea is silly for many reasons. First it still has flaws. It is injecting animals with more of our (human’s) chemicals. It would take so many years to determine the possible physiological changes to any animals. That’s all we need, more chemicals and drugs being spread about our wild life. It is logistically difficult and expensive. Why spend money when we can make money controlling our deer herds. It’s a no brainier, for those that have a brain.
IC is protein and if you consume pork then I don't think you would have any problems with deer birth control and it does not pass thru the food chain. Why don't you watch the video by Jay kirkpatrick he is the expert not you.
IC is synthetic. I have been aware of this for years. I have worked with the biologists that work in the field. Kirkpatrick is just another activist. His opinions are in the minority. He does one experiment and calls it success. He completely passes by the hypothesis stage of science. I’m familiar with him. He is not taken real serious in the industry. I only eat the pork I kill in the field. Try listening to the thousands of biologists that work in the field; they are the experts.
Why does it seem Patrick that every hunters are "biologist" even slob hunters? Second of all you know nothing about IC and the Jay kirkpatrick is a researcher who has 20 years of experience in this field although I know you the "biologist" have more lol. Here is what he says about IC.
"Finally, the vaccine is a
protein and ninth grade biology students who are paying attention in class
know that proteins can't pass through the food chain. Does this all sound
unsafe?"
PS. Jay kirkpatrick is a hunter so I guess you cannot agrue against a hunter huh?
Carolinetc, Thanks for the laugh. Jay Krkpatrick is not a hunter. I never said I was a Biologist. I said listen to the thousands of biologists regarding this subject, not the one anti-hunter that is an activist. I don’t know more than the biologists, but I do know a fare amount having worked with the biologists in the field. Have you worked with the biologists? Obviously not, the “deer birth control” will never replace hunting as you would like. LOL
Incidentally, lest anyone attempts to pigeonhole me in some social activist
group, I have hunted deer for most of my life and I started in Bucks County
more than 50 years ago.
You have my permission to share this response with anyone, but I certainly
believe the editorial board of the newspaper in question should be required
to see in just what kind of journalism they are participating.
Jay F. Kirkpatrick, Ph.D.
Director
The Science and Conservation Center
2100 South Shiloh Road
Billings, MT 59106
406-652-9719
Lecture Series, October, November, 2006
Compassionate Science:
The Evolution and Future of Wildlife Contraception
by world renowned scientist,
Jay Kirkpatrick, Ph.D.
The quote above is by the man who is a specialist IC (deer birth control) Here Jay kirkpatrick says it works and WORKS WELL.
The short video I put together is called
Wildlife Agencies and Hunters continues to lie and mislead the public about deer birth control
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-SWquvLZR8&feature=channel_page
Why do you supposed the hunting public lie and mislead the public about IC? Because it will interfere with their production of deer for hunting opportunity.
Just because an activist says he was a hunter, it doesn’t make it so. He has stretched the truth before as most of you animal rights people do. Even if he WAS a hunter, he has turned activist now against hunting. To say he IS a hunter is misleading, but then we’re used to getting “misleading” information from the animal rights activists. It will never replace hunting, I’m happy to say.
Denial is not the river in Egypt Patrick50 lol
Sorry, I’ve been gone hunting, but I’m back now. If this is denial, I’ll take it, as long as I can hunt. LOL
All one has to do is look at the opposing numbers that refute Kirkpatrick’s findings. He is an activist that lies. The numbers and the truth are on our side.
Where are these "opposing numbers" coming from? Can you show it to us?
Yes, Please Google Fish and Game from all over the nation. There are too many for me to print. If you have a tiny ounce of honesty, you will read the reports from state Fish and Game. Also, read the reports from California Deer Association. They are all there for you to read and learn.
"Fish and Game" ooo I better believe them because they are about "truth" oh yeah sure *roll eyes*
Carol, apparently the only "truth" you believe is the one you agree with? *rolls eyes* Just think, your tax dollars go to fund the massive hunting that occurs in this state. That should give you indigestion!
Pat, she can't handle the truth! To quote a famous movie line.
1. After doing this for a while I learned their killing is not about food but I was not surprised . I was at one of the "hunters for hungry" website the hunters do not want to buy the tags unless they have a place to dump the bodies. I read the DNR ensure them that the there are pantries to give to. DNR cannot sell as many tags unless there are places where hunters can rid of the bodies after their done with the destruction for "Sports". Remember, I visit plenty of hunters websites, bloggers, forums, DNR, Fish and Games , whitetails videos etc etc
2. I have watched predators and prey killing especially the wolves and learned quiet a lot about them so I put this video together.
woves huntng vs. Hunters "hunting"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWLSW1RGLhE&feature=channel_page
Animal kill for survival and some such as wolves may not even kill for another 2 weeks after the one big meal. Watch the video you may enjoy it.
3. So you don't consume any other animal product such as dairy including cheese, ice cream, etc? NO bacons or eggs? Did you know that a glass of milk has more hormone then the meat the you say you don't eat? And how about CWD and Mad deer disease that have killed hunters? Also pesticided are in urban deer carcass.
4. I am here for the people and the deer.
cont
oops wrong post lol!!!
I am putting a video together on this subject and will be done by tonight.
Oh Boy!!!!!!! LOL
Here is the video
Shame on Placer Country CA for pushing child bowhunting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-tQwrvKNeo&feature=channel_page
Hurray for Placer County! We keep people like Carolintc out. Can I ship you some venison. The hunt will soon start. LOL