PC Animal Control installed a new management software system in June 2006 because the old system had some severe glitches, more than the usual garbage in, garbage out phenomenon. Could that too be more erroneous data? The numbers appear to be skewed/faulty in just about every phase of this plan.

IF it can be proven there's a deer problem, and IF it's safe to fire a gun in Loomis and Granite Bay and IF taking 25 doe will solve the collision issue, then why not have a couple of PC law enforcement marksmen take the deer swiftly (humanely) and forget about this "hunt" idea. If F&G is there to field dress the animal they can donate the meat to Loaves & Fishes.

Jim, I'm with you. And, where's the proof that the doe that's killed isn't going to be replaced with another deer susceptible of being hit by a car? This sure seems to me like a recreational event endorsed by Kirk Uhler and running amuck with an outdated Commission with profound hunting underpinnings. I think it's time to install a balanced Commission that would better reflect the people of Placer County. In other words, you don't have to be a hunter to be appointed, which seems to be the case now. I think we need commissioners that are concerned with public safety, private property rights (for those people that will be impacted by hunting on adjacent parcels) and a required level of detail that with some certainty can justify decisions, and not leaving things to happenstance.

You dont have to fire a gun to have a hunt...bow and arrow work just fine...there is a deer problem..that is a no brainer...

I'm a hunter and also a resident of the area in question. Not having conducted a survey I cannot tell with any degree of certainty that herd numbers have increased. I can categorically say that we have not seen as many deer this year, either at our place or while on the trails at Folsom Lake as we normally see. That could be due to a number of reasons. I support having the Department of Fish and Game conduct a herd survey and due diligence before a hunt is authorized. In reality the area East of A-F Rd offers very few places in which a gun could be discharged legally as per CA Hunting regulations. Although most homes sit on acreage the houses are within a quarter mile or less of each other, add to that the numbers of roads and the fact that weapons are not to be discharged accross a road, this can be debated, makes the use of any type of firearm almost an impossibility.

I don't claim to have the answers but if culling is necessary due to numbers, lack of quality forage, illness or other conditions then any method would be preferable to a slow agonizing death due to starvation, even the longest time to die after being wounded would be much shorter than death by starvation.

So, let level heads and valid studies prevail and then we'll address any other ethical, moral or whatever issues. I believe that hunters and non hunters alike have the best interest of the animals in mind. Let's act civilized and keep the name calling to a minimum, preferably totally out of the picture.

Proof is easy to ask for. Proof must be presented by both sides not just one side and it should be factual, totally devoid of subjectivity.

Isn't it interesting that someone suddenly claims deer-auto collisions are increasing and it’s accepted as fact. However, many collisions are never reported, so, as mentioned above, there's a possibility that the figures are all erroneous. There may be just as many accidents now as there ever have been--maybe fewer, maybe more; we just don’t know.

Then, just as suddenly Uhler recommends a deer hunt (see Placer Co Fish and Game Commission agenda in May) without ANY research whatsoever.

As one speaker said Wednesday night, "This is a hunt looking for a reason."

We've lived near Auburn Folsom Road (west by about 1/2 mile) for decades. We've seen fewer and fewer deer every single year for the past 3-4 years. If anything, the only logical action is to find out exactly what the carrying capacity is with Folsom State Park so close. If the herd is declining, then the Loomis/Granite Bay area should be entirely eliminated from the state's F&G D4 hunt zone.

There should no hunting of any kind allowed in a rural residential area. It's not hunting season, but we heard shots fired this morning. If Uhler can recommend a hunt based on no data, and we know people are speeding on Auburn Folsom Rd, then we recommend no more hunts in this area because we’ve observed a declining population and possibly illegal killings taking place in the area. Our speculation ought to be just as credible as his.

Loomis is correct when he says “proof should be presented by BOTH SIDES.” This shouldn’t even be a hunter/anti-hunter issue. It should be investigated as a herd count and a safety issue. Canus_lupus, you make a statement that the numbers are skewed. That is a subjective opinion. You have nothing to back that up. The commission does “represent” Placer County as it is a predominately conservative county. You didn’t get your way so you want to change the commission, not going to happen. Why have law enforcement do the job when that would COST money? We can have a “special hunt” that would MAKE money, assuming they determine it is necessary and it would be safe. Anyone attempting to question the number of deer/auto collisions is just playing games here. The number of these collisions went form 9 in 2006 to 92 in 2009. That’s approximately a 900% increase in just three years. That’s huge! I don’t think that’s representative of people just deciding to pick up the phone and call. I don’t know what the reasons for this are, but that is what the report is for. They may find that there just happens to be more foliage in that particular area that provides more nutrients. They may not even recommend the hunt. A representative from Uhler’s office was there. He didn’t recommend a hunt. He recommended research to determine the problem and said maybe a hunt would help, no “recommendations” that I’m aware of.

Randall, As you know, the only people making statement like “this is a hunt looking for a reason” was the special interest group at the meeting. Your speculation is not as credible because you have an agenda and you deny facts. I think the powers that be are dong a fine job at investigating this before they make a recommendation. It is only the anti-hunters that are jumping the “gun.” (Pun intended) Loomis, it was great to meet you the other night.

P-50, same here.

Uhler's office can't backpedal fast enough on this can of worms. You bet they won't dare recommend a hunt again!

There is no money to be made with this hunt. The money going to the landowners to allow hunters is from a federal grant (TAXES we've paid!). Hunting licenses do not cover DFG’s wardens, biologists, etc, wages. What makes money are fines attached to unsafe speed arrests, which is what should be happening, rather than killing deer and keeping speeders happy.

Not only do the deer-auto collision numbers not agree--one total from Animal Control, another from CHP, and another from public works (let's see what CalTrans, and/or the sheriff can come up with), but also they're comparing "specific areas" of the county with the entire county. Talk about "skewing" the results to meet the need!

"Special interest group" is a term that means every single person who has a neuron firing in their brain. The hunters, the community, neighbors, landowners, animal welfare folks, etc., all have special interests. That's why we supposedly live in a democracy where we can each advocate for what we believe is right.

Here's one of mine: I don't want supervisors or anyone trying to push a nonexistent problem down my throat in order to hide their hidden agendas. Don't recommend cockamamie hunts that will threaten the peace and sanctity of rural residential neighborhoods.

You want to hunt? Get your tags and go hunt in unpopulated forests--not from back porches.

Randall, Uhler office hasn’t “recommended the hunt.” Please provide the evidence that he “recommended” a hunt without the research. You are not being honest. As far as the monies applied to the wild life and conservation, 75% of all of the project costs are funded from the Pittman-Robinson Act. This is a tax on all ammunition. The other 25% comes from the state through license fees and tags, Google Pittman-Robinson Act. It is all there for you to see. By a huge margin, it is the hunters that provide these funds with licenses, tags, fees and taxes on hunting products. They are using the number of calls that were received from the CHP. Don’t attempt to confuse the issue with hybabeeba, mybageeba. They only compared the number of collisions in that specific area. Try to be honest. A “special interest group” is a group op people working toward a common goal. We all know how that applies here. The hunters are not working toward anything here. In fact, not all hunters agree with the hunt. Calling this a non existent problem before the report is produced is irresponsible. The only part that I may agree with you is whether or not it is safe. They do a great job with these “special hunts.” We will have to wait to see what they recommend. The Data are the missing links here.

The article mentions the rising number of car accidents involving deer. I don't know if this is true or not, but if people slowed down on the roads the number and severity of accidents could be greatly reduced. Among the roads of Christian Valley, Meadow Vista and Bell Road, people drive extremely fast, way beyond the speed limits. I'm tired of seeing dead deer and other animals along the side of the road. Sometimes it is sadly unavoidable if an animal too quickly steps in front of the car, but in a lot of cases, if people drove the speed limit and focused on the road (no cell phones and text messaging), I bet a lot of accidents could be avoided. Please slow down. Remember it's more than animals sharing the road, there are bicyclists and people walking. Drive safe.

For the record: Uhler’s office DID recommend the hunt. Get a copy of the May 27, 2009 Fish and Game agenda. You will read this under VII. NEW BUSINESS:

“a. Discussion on recommendation to the Placer County BOS supporting a special deer hunt in the Granite Bay/Loomis area.” During the discussion that night, his own commissioner explained that Uhler had received a few phone calls or was contacted. Excuse me—How much more proof does one need?

FACT: This hunt was being planned BEFORE there were ANY facts on deer overpopulation, or ANY research on accident cause, or ANY correlation between the two.

Some may be trying to protect Uhler because between the development he loves (coming to Granite Bay) and his solar energy “deals, there’s no telling what this rogue elephant is capable of doing for his special contributors.

True, not all hunters support the special kiddee hunt in a rural residential area, proving that some hunters have a head on their shoulders that is not mounted by the taxidermist. They know folly when they see it, and this is it.

OK folks, can we keep this civil without name calling. When hysterics get in the act it detracts from any credibility that may exist.

Have a great weekend.

Oh by the way, The BOS doesn't much care about private property rights. Any one remembers the wineries and the private roads issue? Who won? Hint- It was not John Q. Public

Patrick50, pick up the phone and call PC Animal Control. They will tell you they junked their software management system because it was ineffective in its intended purpose, to provide reliable data. (530-886-5500) That's a fact. It's also a fact that the software manafacture went out of business because so many animal shelters were experiencing the same problems and jumping ship on their product. That's a fact.

So, are you suggesting that individuals working in non-profit SPCA's and animal rescue organizations are only liberals? If they would accept a position, I believe they would balance the commission's purpose.

I too suspect the foliage in the area provides more nutrients, that foliage is grapes, tomatoes, rose bushes.... We need to educate people to plant deer resistant plants or better yet, less plants. Would also serve as a waterwise measure to boot.

Randall, I agree with you.

That's right, name calling isn't necessary. Elephants everywhere are planning a stamped if they continue to be associated with Uhler.

canis lupus, we grow a garden, we have an 8' fence around it so the deer can't get to our plants. There are many ways to deter the deer from coming into your property , some of the things we have done is to install motion detecting lights around the house, there werk very well and in four years since we installed them the wife's rose bushes have been left alone. As far as the rest of the acreage, it is fenced and cross fenced for our horses, otherwise it is pretty much as it's been forever, some oak tress, pastures that are irrigated primarily for fire prevention and to supplement the horses feed.. We have found that on ocassion a deer will jump the fence and join a horse in his pasture, the horses don't seem to mind sharing their feed when that happens. I have tried to run them away when I see them but I feel that it's a losing battle. Should we get rid of the horses?

Have a great weekend.

There ain't gonna be a public deer hunt--12-17 years of age or otherwise. If it's done, it will be by professionals--it shouldn't be done at all, but if it is, it won't be Uhler's plan & he knows it--he still likes to ruffle feathers.

Challengenow, You are restating the AJ’s statement. I don’t find where Ulher’s office “recommended” a hunt without the research. Canis lupus, (CL) So what! That means nothing. They are not biologists. They know nothing about maintaining proper habitat for wild life. Realizing that this has gotten off topic, you anti-hunters brought the discussion there. If we are going to get back to the subject, whether or not a hunt should occur, the report will shed light on this, and then we can all give them our opinions. Unfortunately, CL everything does seem to come down to politics. If the Board was slanted to the left, they would have shut the option down before the research was even done. There are so many of you political activists on the left that are so partisan and will attack Uhler and the other conservative politicians over the way the sun came up this morning’ it gets old.

That should read “the way the sun comes up.”